Thank you. I am hoping you will take the time to read my reply.
I don’t agree with the trans ideology. And I wouldn’t say I was a TERF. I just dislike the assertion by trans women that they are biologically female.
Valerie, sadly, you have just made two key statements that are directly TERF in nature. TERF is not a slur — it is defining an ideology, Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism. The statements you just made have you fall squarely in the capital city of TERFland.
a. There is no such thing as “trans ideology.” There is scientific research that creates a body of scientific knowledge. Medical professionals worldwide acknowledge this scientific model.
b. No one is asserting that trans woman are biologically female. It is a known fact that trans women are born with biologically-male anatomies. The assertion is that trans women are neurologically female. There is plenty of evidence that the gender-divergent section of the human brain on trans women resemble the gender-divergent sections of biological women, and are different from those of men. (Note: This is not a point I am interested in debating with you. There is plently of research available. Google is your friend.)
However, my suspicion is that you are probably less of a TERF and more of a TUMF. Which is the reason I am engaging in this conversation with you. (Note: I am willing to continue the conversation. I am NOT interested in debate.)
For 4 years, anytime a woman wanted to discuss the Reproductive Rights Movement, and talk about are female biology, we were silenced on Twitter. That’s four years.
I agree with you that the silencing of women’s voices and the obstacles to reproductive rights is a shameful condition in this country. I agree with you that women’s reproductive rights are a fundamental issue of feminism. I support you on this.
And I resent that now that the war against abortion rights and access to contraception, now some TAs are demanding to be front and center. “Lift up trans women’s voices” They can be included, but I’ll be damn if that happens.
I agree with you in your assessment that trans women should be included but not centered. I discuss this at length in my story. I empathize with my trans sisters in their dire need to be heard — we’ve been silenced and marginalized in ways that you can’t even imagine. Our need for a voice is urgent. Which is the reason why so many women -cis & trans- are clamoring for intersectionality. As a black woman, I am sure you can understand. There is an ongoing debate as to whether one should lift up the voices of the many, or lift up the voices of the most marginalized. I recently was at the County Court for an orientation preceding a hearing — all 32 English-speaking folks in the room had to wait patiently while things were properly set up for the two Spanish-only people in the room. It was annoying. But I understand the reasoning. The failure, of course, was in the facilitators — they should’ve checked the equipment ahead of time. Similarly, facilitators of events can work diligently to allow for everyone’s experience to go smoothly.
Especially since they get soooo triggered. Kathy Burns (sp) when she complained about being on 1 panel. At the end of that article, framed in economic uplift, suggested that TW be hired with 2 board seats, 2 executive positions, a few administration positions and organizers positions.
I read Katelyn Burns’ piece. I agree with you on your read of it. However, you lose me soon after. Read on.
A group of women of various racial, ethnic, religious and skill bases, came together and created an organization to be used as a mechanism to organize women for a march and activists activities. And now that is up and running, a person who was not involved in the creation and the logistics, is highly suggesting a transfer of power.
Valerie, this is where you start going over the top. Katelyn was not at all suggesting a “transfer of power,” that is preposterous. She was just asking for more visibility, and more inclusion. As I tried and tried to get across in my story, this is similar to how black women felt unheard and excluded in the 1970s Second Wave. I believe your position is valid. But I also read a lack of empathy from your part.
THIS IS WHAT WHITE MALE ENTITLEMENT LOOKS LIKE.
This is a *highly* destructive statement. I happen to have a sunny disposition and I believe you’r earnest, so I’m doing all I can to work past my intense triggering and not disconnect right here. This is hurtful. I would beseech you to know this shit off. When a man stands up for himself, they call him “assertive.” But when a woman stands up for herself, they call us “bossy” or “bitchy.” And when trans women stand up for ourselves, you call it “male entitlement.” When a black woman asserts herself, they call her an “angry black woman.” It’s all bullshit epithets, amounting to “shut up and sit down.” I don’t agree with everything Katelyn Burns said, but please don’t launch this nasty-ass mudslinging to make your points.
They claim the male socialization doesn’t take. This shows the contrary. I understand that minority TWs had fundamentally different boyhoods being in a hypermasculinity environment. And they’re not the ones making the demands. TDOR were White trans people, put themselves front and center that day, as they hold up picture after picture of murdered Black trans women. They conflate there almost zero risk factor, with that of dead. That is a performance of Munchausan by Proxy. It’s categorically morally bankrupt.
And now you’ve officially lost your goddam mind. TDOR is held up by Latina, Black and White trans women and allies. Also: White women lifting up Black women is NOT morally corrupt (?!?) — it is sisterhood in motion, it is the privileged using their privilege to lift up those without. A wonderful example of that is here.
You show a massive lack of understanding of Munchausen by proxy (MSBP) — and what’s worse, I know where you lifted that from. It is part of the TERF narrative against parents of trans children. You lie with dogs (well, bitches), you get up with fleas.
Sisterhood between White women and Black women: they don’t have to become bffs. But Black women should be able to provide a cogent discussion to White women to explain the historical roots, generation after generation, to explain the current place we are at. These are the following that have systemic institutional anti Black bias: Medical, the judicial, educational, housing and under employment. Many of these overlap. But they must break off into teams and each team would focus on a specific institution. And share the information to the other teams, every 4 months. See this could be workable.
Hold on, sister, you just argued agains the centering of trans women issues. Are you now arguing for the centering of another women minority? There is a lack of consistency here. And it just so happens to be the minority YOU belong to. (I don’t disagree with your point. But I want you to study the hypocrisy you show in shutting down one while lifing up the other.
TERFs don’t want to exterminate the trans community. They disagree with liberal feminist on fundamental issues and the claim of being biologically is a bridge too far.
For someone who is not a TERF, you spend some time defending TERF ideology. And you’re wrong there — TERFs actively ally themselves with the conservative Right to push laws aimed at wiping us out from society.
TAs want to attain rights on the backs of women and girls sex-based protections.
Trans women want the rights of women. Your statement is profoundly transphobic. I ask you to study the entitlement oozing from your statement. One could just as easily say, of women seeking the right to vote, “women want to attain rights on the back of men.” One could just as easily say, of black folks marching for equality, “blacks want to attain rights on the back of whites.”
I am not Cis. And Cis doesn’t mean not Trans.
You’re incorrect. You are biologically cisgender. Cisgender is a classification for folks whose physical sex aligns with their neurological gender. Cis means not Trans — that’s exactly what it means, and nothing else. (The purpose for the term is simply to avoid the ‘othering’ trap of referring to cisgender people as ‘normal,’ thus making us abnormal.)
There are 130 privileges that Everyday Feminism has compiled a list. The first one for women, was being born female when TA gave the original list.
I don’t think trans women should be able to play women’s sports.
This is a debatable point. I do not have a defined opinion on this matter.
I don’t believe that they should be able to access resources from that were created by and for female women and girls.
This is 100% TERF talk. Trans women ARE female women and girls. #letthempee #anddontberidiculous
The BT were added to the LG in 2000. That means the trans community has had 17 years to create homeless shelters. Educational facilities, since the poorest don’t have GEDs. Create workforce development centers. And form employment agencies. Instead think tanks, foundations, institutes, PR and lobbying groups, advocacy organizations (lots and lots of lawyers). Since the liberal feminist are signal boosting your community. Work with them to create the needed services for the community.
Valerie, trans women are women. Why would you, a black woman, endorse segregation?
The Cotton Ceiling Sex War against the Lesbian Community. Lesbian are same-sex attracted female women. This is nothing new. It’s not like lesbians have been keeping it a secret. White trans women and Activists have question are orientations.
I am unable to understand this sentence.
As girls we grow up being sexually harrassed. This doesn’t stop until we our forties. Lesbians are included in this group. We have a history and a culture.
As trans women, we grow up being sexually harrassed. This doesn’t stop EVER.
There have been and influx of more TW who were considered to be heteosexual before they transitioned. See there was a time when only gay men could transition. And believe me, they didn’t want to be up under a bunch of dykes. But this is a horse of a different color. We aren’t the straight women that they dealt with pre-transition. And they seem to befuddled about why the majority of US don’t want to date or fuck them. They say that we have transphobic conditioning from our cissexist childhoods. We think about our sexual orientations a lot, before we come out. We are questioned by parents, religious church leaders, are family members and our friends. So it’s offensive to be asked the same question by white Ex-men.
Ok, I am beginning to understand your point. Please don’t use the transphobic term “Ex-men.” You don’t need to be insulting to make your points.
I believe you have the goddess-given right to date whomever you please, to be attracted to whomever you please. I can understand why trans women might be hurt by rejection. I believe that gentleness can be a virtue. Of course, if you insist in seeing us as men (which would 100% make you a TERF), then you would naturally have no inclination for compassion. But if you understand us as unfortunate women — women born with a bitch of a birth defect, you can hopefully be a bit more empathic. I’m not saying you need to fuck trans women. But you can be kind.
Why do we not want to date or have sex with them. They have said our genital preferences are transphobic.
I believe one’s sexual preferences are one’s own, and nobody has the right to question them. #Consent
But no one in their community has ever questioned why they only want natal women, you know women who were born female and have vaginas that open into female reproductive systems.
Valerie, you don’t speak for all women. I have had sex with lesbians, and I’ve had lesbians hit on me and politely turned them down, and I have hit on lesbians only to be politely turned down. My current partner is female-bodied. You have specific preferences, and you’re entitled to them. But what’s this “we” you keep using?
It started in 2012 and has been unabated. White libfem handmaidens have been in the mix, QT trans community has been in the mix, and the Mogwai communities have been in the mix. We are not male centered in are lives. We are not here to validate White trans women’s gender identity or their desirability.
Again with the transphobia. “Male-centered”? Really?
But aside from that, I agree with this: you are not in any way obligated to validate white trans women’s desirability. In terms of validating their gender identity, well, to me that seems an entirely different matter. If a woman I don’t find attractive hit on me at a bar, I may politely demure. But I wouldn’t negate her very identity *because I’m not a cold-hearted bitch.*
This is all rooted in WHITE MALE ENTITLEMENT to female women.
Please stop saying this. It is a hateful sentence.
You stop this argument, which has resulted in aggressive sexual harrassment and the DANA RIVERS cotton ceiling muders of three people, an interracial married couple and their son. She met them in a lesbian MC, you know dykes on bikes kind of thing. She was welcomed. She fixated on the black partner. Constantly sexually propositioned her. When she got her last rejection, through pre-meditation, came to their house. Lead them into the garage. Repeatedly shot both of them. The son heard the shots and ran to the garage door, open it and was repeatedly shot. Died 10 feet from the front door. She got a knife with a 10 blade and repeatedly stabbed them both. Tried to burn their bodies and escape on a motorcycle, but by then the police were there. She was drenched in the blood of her victims, as if she had fallen into the pool. The predominately white national LGBTQ orgs tried to blackout the story. So the liberal, feminist and lgbtq media sites didn’t report it except for one, Autostraddle had it up for 30 minutes. And because Dana Rivers said Property over and over, the white trans community the first day, blamed the victim. Then for the next 3 days said it was an outlier thing. A total of 24k tweets were sent, if each person has 25 followers, that’s 250,000 ppl who engaged; if it’s 50 that’s 500,000 and so forth. Three weeks later, when the detectives investigated, the true motivation came out, The Cotton Ceiling.
While I am in shock and despair over that tragedy, no one knows what Dana Rivers’ motives were. Not even you. So you make a wild leap in categorizing it as this or that. Has there never been a lesbian murder? Has there never been a black murder? Occasionally people lose their shit and do inconguent, violent, savage acts. And sometimes we know why, and sometimes we do not. And then we can blame guns, we can blame lack of prayer in schools, we can blame videogames. You chose to blame “male entitlement.” I ask that you look at how you twist things to conform to TERF ideology here.
Shutdown this corrosive argument, and I’ll back your play. Until that time, no I don’t want these TW in Lesbian spaces.
Do you want me to publicly stand against murder? <shrug> Ok, I also think murder is bad.
See I’m 55 Black lesbian, and this directly resonates with me. When they started the CC, they asked white lesbian if they would date Black women. So they conflated what they call transmisogyny with racism. And they have said point blank that they think Black women are biomedicaly different than white women; just like they are. I can not begin to unpack that kind of racism. But they have shown again, that the white trans community has a RACE problem.
Valerie, I am unable to follow you at this point. There ARE medical differences between black and white people — hemoglobin differences, iron deficiency differences, etc. None of this, of course, means that either race is ‘better,’ it just informs medical practitioners how to best administer care for their patients.
I have interviewed white trans women and black trans women and what I’ve found is that, as it is everywhere, the entitled are not aware of their entitlement; the privileged take their privilege for granted. I’ve had to educate myself in race issues I was ignorant of. I continue learning all the time.
I don’t know what else I could add. I believe we could have constructive conversations. I believe some of your concerns deserve being heard. Perhaps you should write your own story here at Medium. But I’m still hurting from the several transphobic things you threw at me in your response. I’ve done my best to overlook them, but they still sting.
My whole article was written to promote a deeper sense of unity among women. I believe much of your response was written to promote the exact opposite. And that’s just sad.